Arm64 Tier 1 FreeBSD 13 Phones

Discussion:

grarpamp

2021-04-10 08:07:49 UTC

FreeBSD Phones...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Librem_5
NXP i.MX 8M Quad core Cortex-A53, 64bit ARM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PinePhone
Allwinner A64 ARM Quad core Cortex-A53

Happy hacking :)

Ian Lepore

2021-04-10 15:02:48 UTC

Permalink

Post by grarpamp
FreeBSD Phones...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Librem_5
NXP i.MX 8M Quad core Cortex-A53, 64bit ARM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PinePhone
Allwinner A64 ARM Quad core Cortex-A53
http://youtu.be/c32-QOrI4cw
http://youtu.be/fCKMxzz9cjs
http://youtu.be/lVJo9faE1fM
http://youtu.be/NV0RnWorPpQ
Happy hacking :)

Dream on. FreeBSD lacks the power-management infrastructure to run on
battery-operated devices. The amount of work required to get there
from here is almost unimaginable, and there are no big companies
funding that kind of work (which is how linux got all that code).

-- Ian

Valery Seys

2021-04-10 15:39:11 UTC

Permalink

Post by Ian Lepore

... and even on Linux, the power management is very unstable on the PinePhone ;
I tried it through 3 distros (Mobian, KDE Manjaro, GloDroid), and results are
far to provide something usable for a day to day usage.
Some investigations I made with Mobian on a new Pinephone having hardware issue:
https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=13311&pid=91835#pid91835

IMHO, the Pinephone is something like a prototype, low quality control (and low
price too), but not really something reliable.

But yes, FreeBSD on a smartphone would be so great !

Shawn Webb

2021-04-10 15:47:50 UTC

Permalink

There's a company (called Potabi? Fivnex?) that claims to be
developing a FreeBSD-based phone on PinePhone hardware. They claim to
eventually be able to run Android apps on it. As it stands, I'm seeing
more marketing material than development efforts published by them.

If I were to hazard a guess, this "development" effort will fizzle
out. I'd like to see it come to fruition, but I'm pretty skeptical.

https://potabi.fivnex.co/development

Thanks,

--
Shawn Webb
Cofounder / Security Engineer
HardenedBSD

https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc

grarpamp

2021-04-11 16:00:20 UTC

Permalink

[cc'd for fyi, trim replies to arm]

Post by Ian Lepore

https://www.pine64.org/pinephone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Librem_5
NXP i.MX 8M Quad core Cortex-A53, 64bit ARM
https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PinePhone
Allwinner A64 ARM Quad core Cortex-A53
http://youtu.be/c32-QOrI4cw
http://youtu.be/fCKMxzz9cjs
http://youtu.be/lVJo9faE1fM
http://youtu.be/NV0RnWorPpQ
https://www.fosslinux.com/43842/linux-phones-for-privacy.htm

FreeBSD lacks the power-management infrastructure to run on
battery-operated devices.

Management? Meh... that's what a power cable
and battery belt are for... moar power.

Post by Ian Lepore
linux ... code

Reference material for reverse engineering.

Post by Ian Lepore
developing a FreeBSD-based phone on PinePhone hardware.

FreeBSD might already runs on Pinephone...

https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=5574
https://twitter.com/nrgmilk_
https://twitter.com/DarkainMX/status/1282764108060717056
https://www.pine64.org/2020/07/15/july-updatepmos-ce-pre-orders-and-new-pinephone-version/
https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=6232

https://www.reddit.com/r/PinePhoneOfficial+PINE64official+PinebookPro+PineTab/search?restrict_sr=on&q=(freebsd+OR+openbsd+OR+netbsd+OR+bsd)
https://www.reddit.com/r/FreeBSD+OpenBSD+NetBSD/search?restrict_sr=on&q=(pinephone+OR+pine64+OR+a53)
https://linuxsmartphones.com/hackers-develop-open-source-firmware-for-the-pinephone-modem-use-it-to-make-phone-calls/
https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Osmocom_on_TI_Calypso
http://openbts.org/

Post by Ian Lepore
https://potabi.fivnex.co/development

https://github.com/fivnex
https://potabi.fivnex.co/
https://blog.fivnex.co/
https://twitter.com/potabimobile
https://discord.gg/8prEeTV
https://twitter.com/fivnex
https://fivnex.co/

Post by Ian Lepore
funding

https://liberapay.com/fivnex/donate

Post by Ian Lepore
Dream on.

These phones (boards) are growing the beginnings of a hacker culture
that is trying to get all sorts of unix to run on them, a long held dream.
And the future of phones and open hardware is only opening up more.
So whether it's Fivnex or others, do not be surprised when people
boots more kernels on them soon. Your refrigerator and car will
splash Beastie.

May your dreams hack into reality :)

Valery Seys

2021-04-12 07:10:50 UTC

Permalink

Post by grarpamp
[cc'd for fyi, trim replies to arm]

Post by Ian Lepore

FreeBSD lacks the power-management infrastructure to run on
battery-operated devices.

Management? Meh... that's what a power cable
and battery belt are for... moar power.

Post by Ian Lepore
linux ... code

Reference material for reverse engineering.

Post by Ian Lepore
developing a FreeBSD-based phone on PinePhone hardware.

FreeBSD might already runs on Pinephone...
https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=5574
https://twitter.com/nrgmilk_
https://twitter.com/DarkainMX/status/1282764108060717056
https://www.pine64.org/2020/07/15/july-updatepmos-ce-pre-orders-and-new-pinephone-version/
https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=6232
https://www.reddit.com/r/PinePhoneOfficial+PINE64official+PinebookPro+PineTab/search?restrict_sr=on&q=(freebsd+OR+openbsd+OR+netbsd+OR+bsd)
https://www.reddit.com/r/FreeBSD+OpenBSD+NetBSD/search?restrict_sr=on&q=(pinephone+OR+pine64+OR+a53)
https://linuxsmartphones.com/hackers-develop-open-source-firmware-for-the-pinephone-modem-use-it-to-make-phone-calls/
https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Osmocom_on_TI_Calypso
http://openbts.org/

Post by Ian Lepore
https://potabi.fivnex.co/development

https://github.com/fivnex
https://potabi.fivnex.co/
https://blog.fivnex.co/
https://twitter.com/potabimobile
https://discord.gg/8prEeTV
https://twitter.com/fivnex
https://fivnex.co/

Post by Ian Lepore
funding

https://liberapay.com/fivnex/donate

Post by Ian Lepore
Dream on.

I'm affraid that FreeBSD do not run on a PinePhone.
The dmesg from nycbug comes from a pine64 board, not from a pinephone.

And unfortunately:
- openmoko: pretty dead.
- the fivnex 'potabi' project: unrealistic
- Pine Microsystem Inc: kickstarter project, Cie dissolved in Jan,2020.
Now, the product are sold from an Hong Kong Cie, 'Pine Store Inc.' ; I don't
know who are these guys, but I'm pretty sure they don't have an engineering
staff and will not make the phone better (it could change ...)
Last, the Quectel EG25 GSM Modem has proprietary firmware ('blob'), some
enthusiasts try to make it open. So, the phone is not really 'open source'.

Nice phone that runs well and is completly opened and free :
http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~mellis/cellphone/
(Not sure you will be able to find all components today)

P&L

v/

John F Carr

2021-04-13 13:43:52 UTC

Permalink

Post by Valery Seys
I'm affraid that FreeBSD do not run on a PinePhone.
The dmesg from nycbug comes from a pine64 board, not from a pinephone.

Is it known not to run, or merely untested? It looks like every Pine device needs a different configuration. At $200 it is tempting to get one to experiment on. Maybe after my current time sink ends in a few weeks.

The original message (subject line) reflects a misunderstanding of what "Tier 1" means. It means the FreeBSD team will try hard not to break rack mount servers. Tier 1 status doesn't make FreeBSD any more suited to phones than Tier 2 status. It doesn't add device or CPU support. See all the difficulties with Raspberry Pi. It doesn't add a UI for a small screen. The potabi PinePhone project by its own admission hasn't accomplished anything but starting a UI design. But maybe by end of year we can have something that works when plugged into a power supply.

Valery Seys

2021-04-13 14:47:11 UTC

Permalink

Post by John F Carr

Post by Valery Seys
I'm affraid that FreeBSD do not run on a PinePhone.
The dmesg from nycbug comes from a pine64 board, not from a pinephone.

Is it known not to run, or merely untested? It looks like every Pine device needs a different configuration. At $200 it is tempting to get one to experiment on. Maybe after my current time sink ends in a few weeks.
The original message (subject line) reflects a misunderstanding of what "Tier 1" means. It means the FreeBSD team will try hard not to break rack mount servers. Tier 1 status doesn't make FreeBSD any more suited to phones than Tier 2 status. It doesn't add device or CPU support. See all the difficulties with Raspberry Pi. It doesn't add a UI for a small screen. The potabi PinePhone project by its own admission hasn't accomplished anything but starting a UI design. But maybe by end of year we can have something that works when plugged into a power supply.

Shortly:
- 'do not run' was in reply to the fake dmesg from nycbug (mismatch btw pine64
and pinephone)
- I failed myself to build a proper dtb, but I'm really not an expert on this!
- so, no boot => untested
- I'm sure somebody will produce something bootable ... one day.
- Bootable do not mean usable, Quectel Modem has no kmod, as for the touchcreen,
and this is the minimum.

If you dev something, you must know that the phone is very unstable, so
sometimes a bug means an hardware failure.

I hope the Potabi project and its nice enthusiast team will produce something,
but running Android through a 'qemu-lation' on a Cortex A53 2GB board with a
Mali400 GPU is something I would like to see.

++

v/